Makes Gateway Explorer an official job

[Kyep]

Reasons why we should have Gateway Explorer as a job:

1. We need more job slots. With >100 people regularly on the server, adding new jobs is important in order to avoid having 50+ Civilians on shift. Gateway Explorer, as a potential job, is a popular job, with existing mechanics, that can support several slots, and requires almost no map edits to make it viable (just placing the starting positions). In terms of jobs we could add to boost slots, it does well on every measure. If we want to add new jobs to increase slots (which we have to, really), then Gateway Explorer should be at the top of the list.
2. It is already an unofficial job. We get several people asking for it every shift. This isn't good, because, as an unofficial job, its not managed or regulated very well. It doesn't show up on sec HUDs, it requires a lot of time from the HoP to just process 'I want to become a GE' requests, etc. We don't accept "oh, lets leave this job out of the code and make people ask for it manually every shift" for ANY other job on the station that people regularly do. Why should we accept it for Gateway Explorer? We shouldn't. It should be an official job like any other.
3. GE provides an outlet for people who would otherwise Greytide. Now, they can go off into the gateway and kill things / destroy stuff there. Fun for them, less hassle for everyone else. We have the pop to support it.

OK, so, you've convinced me. What do Gateway Explorers get?

• Starting position in Gateway room, with Gateway access.
• That's it. They have to scrounge all their supplies by ordering them from cargo, interacting with / persuading the crew, etc.

Example screenshot of a GE start:

The green jumpsuits are standard-issue. The white/gray 'G' that resembles a swirling whirlpool is their sec hud icon.

This was brought up on the forums recently here: https://nanotrasen.se/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=9907
While the forum thread calls for making them a Karma job, personally I think they'd do MUCH better as a regular job. So, I did not make them a karma job - they're available to everyone.

🆑 Kyep
add: After a long history of station crews sending out Explorer teams, NT has recognized this as a job.
/🆑

[Jovaniph]

It would need an SoP as well...also it should be 100 karma (of whatever)

[Aurorablade]

if someone wants to greytide they will greytide, Regardless. Plus theres alot of unoffical jobs the hop can give out.

I am not sold on this.

[LightFire53]

I would say add two eva suits to the gateway then, and leave regular eva untouched. Although, regular eva doesn't really have a purpose...

[Aurorablade]

that and i am gonna add we don't really have that much of exicting gateways besides wild west...so..RNG happens..you can now greytide in the gateway...on the beach.

[taukausanake]

These should be a karma job I feel. Gateway explorers don't really add anything to the round; the very most they can get loot that will end up in Science to get researched or abused if possible. Also that EVA access shouldn't be free.
Keep the space suits in EVA and let them have access. You want to keep the suits together else people will just break into the gateway and take those suits instead.
I think I'd like them to have their own jumpsuit or at least uniform. Something a little standard, like they are trained professionals (or chuckle fucks) at exploring exotic and hostile lands. That or give them red jumpsuits. Never to be seen again :P

[SamHPurp]

I'm really against holding this as a karma only role...

I agree with pretty much the only PR, I'm enjoying the fact that nobody is complaining about them not having maintenance access, personally I think thats genius.

One thing I'd push for changing @Kyep is indeed as you nodded to... removing their EVA access, and adding a couple soft suits to the Gateway room.

Other misc concerns: "Boring" gateway missions like The Beach, or the one that requires you to dig out of it.

I like the idea of keeping them with random jumpsuits... but also support the 'red shirts' from @taukausanake .

[taukausanake]

I agree with no maint access and I suppose if you can have air tight soft suits (I'm not aware of any so please correct me) that might be better than EVA access.

There is one thing I'd like to mention now that I recall it but not of importance. A gateway team is a group comprised of members from different departments, kind of like an ERT squad. It's more IC stuff though but I think it would be nice if they did have a job jumpsuit that they have armbands for which sect they should be in. Just a little bit more for immersions.
Otherwise, the only downside I see to them having red shirts is that they might look like Security too much but spriting isn't that hard

[Rumiluntti]

I am against making more jobs that encourage you to leave the station.

[SamHPurp]

@Rumiluntti Have you been HoP lately? You'll get between 5-15 people asking you to be a Gateway explorer per shift.

This is already treated as a job by the entire population. This PR removes that artificial barrier of going to the HoP for access.

[Xantholne]

https://youtu.be/MnFQlVT2UBo

[SheepFighter]

My only complaint is the lack of maintenance access. Is there a single role currently that doesn't have it?
Not that I'm necessarily opposed to restricting maint access, but let's at least be consistent about it.

Otherwise, this looks good.

As for the idea of this being karma-restricted: That does seem to defeat the point of this PR, i.e. stemming the greytide. Besides, the away missions at present are no great shucks. They'd need to be renovated greatly to merit anyone spending kama on them.

[jughu]

Neat a powergame job its likely not gonna end in the following

Xenomorph's
Powercreep man validhunting on return

[Kyep]

@LightFire53 @SamHPurp Removed their EVA access. Put two suit storage units in the Gateway room to compensate. This prevents them from giving clowns/mimes their EVA suits with no oversight.

@SheepFighter @jughu The fact that they lack maint access prevents them from becoming simply a better version of assistant, and also reduces their ability to validhunt after returning from the gateway.

Xantholne has expressed interest in doing jumpsuit sprites for explorers. Will update the OP graphic once that is done.

[jughu]

What would them stop from walking to hop and ask maint access?

[SheepFighter]

@Kyep Now that makes sense. I thus have no complaints.

[Kyep]

@jughu Nothing. The HoP probably won't, though, unless the Gateway is off that shift.

[jughu]

This could still cause peoplw releasing xenomorphs on purpose by facehugging themselves

[jughu]

Also im not against the idea of having a job about it i just feel the maps should be more balanced before we get this and maybe with a telescience gimmick to it

[Kyep]

@jughu There is no way to get xeno infected in the Gateway. All xeno eggs/larva were removed in previous PRs. Additionally, we have people taking unofficial gateway explorer jobs every shift already. This merely codifies an existing job. Telescience is hated by many, to the point it was removed from Science (there used to be a telesci console at roundstart). I won't add any form of telescience to this, as I know it would be unpopular, and this PR exists only to codify what is already popular / common practice.

[davidchan13]

I'd make them their own unofficial dept and make an away team leader as the subhead (like quartermaster) with the leader as the karma role and the regular team members either being timed or cheap roles (like barber) as you could in theory have a 5 man team of leader, Doctor, scientist, engineer and security. Each of them spawns with a soft suit in their bag/internals and VIP space tourist slots could be added if the roles pick up and more missions come up.

Otherwise they could always go explore the derelict or mining asteroid

[Kyep]

@davidchan13 I don't want any karma locking in this PR. It complicates the PR significantly from a technical standpoint, it means people who used to lead away teams no longer could unless they paid karma to do so, and it introduces additional balance/gameplay problems. I'd be fine with colored armbands pre-spawned in the gateway room, perhaps in a locker, so people can put on the bands to signify they're taking certain roles within the team. I would consider adding that - if someone was willing to sprite the armbands. I don't want to get really specific about the roles within the team, though - certainly not to the point of having different 'jobs' for the different team roles. People can already self-identify if they want. Softsuits don't fit in bags, but the team already gets a bigger emergency tank in their internals box. They get the same orange emergency tanks that engineers get. "Space Tourist" might be a thing to consider in future, perhaps as an alt title for explorer. Right now, though, I don't think its needed. You're right that these Explorers could also explore the derelict, if the mechanic builds them a pod or two. Or they're willing to drift about in space until they find it.

[Jedr-k]

Gateway right now isnt suited to be a job contentwise, and this will do little to alliviate the tide. Not sold

[ghost]

Agreed with Draconic, the only away mission that fits a team of explorers is the Wild West which people usually complete by preparing for beforehand

[emmanuelbassil]

The worse round I've ever had on this server is when I was IAA , and the greytide let loose on the gateway.
3 people with gateway access let the whole greytide in, while they were stealing supplies and vending machines from the station and heading down there.
Given that security was busy with the antag of the day, and they they deconstructed the doors the Captain bolted, reinforced walls the engineers had built, etc.; it only ended with them shutting power off to the gateway, setting 5 people as wanted and standing at the gateway with beepsky in hand waiting for them to return.

The gateway is a high-security area, I'd like to remind everyone. One where antags can evade justice, and petty criminals turn into headaches. When I HoP, I never hand out gateway access without the Captain's direct approval, and when I'm Captain I never give out gateway access period.

This will just codify the headache and make it unstoppable.

[taukausanake]

Man, that must have been one fun round. I really enjoy what the tide can accomplish sometimes

[Kyep]

@fox @uranium @Draconic @jughu @Necaladun @IcyV @SamHPurp @deep-fried-faceplant @DragonFire101 @SheepFighter @scrubmcnoob @andrii-yukimchak @dadols @DrunkDwarf @Daliden @taukausanake @Doukhan

Major update...

GE job slots now default to zero. The Captain/HoP have to increase them in order for people to sign up as GEs.

[emmanuelbassil]

That sounds like a good idea. Best of both worlds.

…

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 10:57 AM, Kyep ***@***.***> wrote: @fox <https://github.com/Fox> @uranium <https://github.com/uranium> @Draconic <https://github.com/Draconic> @jughu <https://github.com/jughu> @Necaladun <https://github.com/Necaladun> @IcyV <https://github.com/IcyV> @SamHPurp <https://github.com/SamHPurp> @deep-fried-faceplant <https://github.com/deep-fried-faceplant> @DragonFire101 <https://github.com/DragonFire101> @SheepFighter <https://github.com/SheepFighter> @scrubmcnoob <https://github.com/scrubmcnoob> @andrii-yukimchak @dadols <https://github.com/Dadols> @DrunkDwarf <https://github.com/DrunkDwarf> @Daliden @taukausanake <https://github.com/taukausanake> @Doukhan <https://github.com/Doukhan> Major update... GE job slots now default to zero. The Captain/HoP have to increase them in order for people to sign up as GEs. This ensures Captain/HoP retain control of the number of slots. — You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#6431 (comment)>, or mute the thread <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AGjkewd4UvZIpfCRd0ARf92-tapRe-5aks5reqb1gaJpZM4L-yzO> .

[SamHPurp]

Doesn't do much to solve the huge amount of civilians with this neutered in this way.

Again, compromise is the death of good ideas... but something is better than nothing, I guess?

[jughu]

👍 now i can be a lazy hop

[Jedr-k]

Think you pinged some poor sap instead of me. But I feel that this has the opportunity be a good start to get built that foundation i've been so adamant about. This keeps command in full control over gateway traffic, and reduces the hassle of doing so.

I'm still on the fence about having it be an actual spawn able job, since now we can have HoP unleash a horde of explorers on the beach. But since there's been so much compromise I feel I can live with this aswell.

[Aurorablade]

"GE job slots now default to zero. The Captain/HoP have to increase them in order for people to sign up as GEs."
If you have to do that, just don't make the job and let the Captain/HoP handle it in the first place.
Saying this as someone who does not support this PR.

[mvanalphen]

This also needs to have a preview icon added to preferences_setup.dm.

[Kyep]

@Markolie done

[ghost]

I didn't used to be for this, but given the greater population we have nowadays, I think it needs to happen.

[Kyep]

@Fox-McCloud Merge conflict resolved. Also, updated to use datumized outfits.

[Necaladun]

This will likely be closed soon, as it appears heads/maints are universally against it. Others might pitch in, but my personal reasoning is as follows:

1: It does a lot more to legitimize the gateway. We've always been hesitant on such off station activity that doesn't relate to the main station. Currently it's something we don't have to think too much about - having a job revolve around it would make that more difficult.

2: Graytide + Worries.

3: Lack of particular goal - although each gateway has generally some kinda puzzle, there's nothing obligating them to do that, and nothing to do afterwards. My worries here are them coming back to the station. An exile implant to start with might change that....but seems extreme.

4: Lack of SoP, etc. This kinda goes into the above, but who their CO is, etc, etc, really is a big part of any job like this and needs fleshing out.

[dapocalypse]

Honestly GEs should be allowed to leave. The purpose of the gateway IC according to the pamphlet is colonization. The goal of GE should be to survive and thrive.