Global AP rebalance (No longer shotgun nerf!)

[Loiosh42]

About The Pull Request

Converts armour_penetration from a flat reduction of armor to a percentage of the armor ignored, and gives all shotgun rounds damage falloff.

Additionally adds armour_ignorance, which acts similarly to how old AP functioned. (Warning, is applied AFTER penetration has decreased the quantity of armor.)

Too many number changes to list all of them here, but overall:
AP is worse against weak armor and equally effective or stronger against higher armor levels
Many sources of crew AP have been nerfed somewhat
Megafauna now have both higher AP and respect lower amounts of armor
Bogseo Heavy SMG is now semi-automatic burst instead of full-auto burst due to complaints of inconsistent fire rates

Why It's Good For The Game

Armour penetration as it previously worked seemed fairly unintuitive to me, and additionally is tricky for new coders to balance.
It being a flat reduction on your effective armour value meant it did not scale with the quantity of armour involved, meaning weak armour was ignored.
This evens out the effectiveness curve of armour level vs AP, while still allowing for the same function as it previously held.
I have checked all occasions of armour_penetration in the code and tweaked most of them, hopefully to close to their final range.

ARMOUR PENETRATION EXAMPLE TIME - 50 damage projectile:
. . . . . . . . . . . . 25 old . 50 old . 75 old .|. 25 new . 50 new . 75 new . . | 0 AP
. . 0 armor . . . 50 . . . . . .50 . . . . .50 . . . | . . 50 . . . . . .50 . . . . . .50 . . . . | . 50
. 25 armor . . . 50 . . . . . .50 . . . . .50 . . . | . . 40.6 . . . . 43.7 . . . .46.8 . . . | . 37.5
. 50 armor . . . 37.5 . . . . 50 . . . . .50 . . . | . . 31.2 . . . . 37.5 . . . .43.7 . . . | . 25
. 75 armor . . . 25 . . . . . 37.5 . . . 50 . . . | . . 21.8 . . . . 31.2 . . . .40.6 . . . | . 12.5
100 armor . . . 12.5 . . . . 25 . . . . .37.5 . .| . . 12.5 . . . . 25 . . . . . 37.5 . . . | . 0

Changing the Bogseo from automatic burst to semi-auto burst was requested on discord and should prevent inconsistent fire rate without substantially impacting how effective it is.

The decrease in demolition mod of AP shotgun rounds was requested on discord.

Changelog

🆑
balance: AP has been rebalanced from a flat reduction to a percentage of armor reduction
balance: Bogseo is now semi-auto burst instead of full-auto burst
/:cl:

[ofscarletdreams]

it wasnt a percentage???

[ofscarletdreams]

also for the bogseo are you going to make the burst faster because a 0.5 second burst combined with comical recoil still makes it unwieldy

[githubuser4141]

This seems less realistic, a e-sword shouldn't pause because you put a kevlar or leather vest/jacket on, nor should most rifle rounds unless they're designed to penetrate the least amount of armor for some reason. Megafauna's are similar to small trains, and I don't think putting on a kevlar vest would help when a train or car-sized bone spear hits me.

Off topic, I wonder why the 7.12x80mm bullets are designed to have so little damage and AP.

[Ice-Type]

This is really bad. It takes away the clean numbers and simple maths weapons used to have -eswords being able to ignore basic armour with their 35, really good AP being able to ignore specialised armour with 50 and above, and things with only a little AP like sharpened iron rods only doing a bit against sec armour.

In return, it makes lower values do very little against most armour, and also means that when those values are increased to follow high armour stops being an option against those same weapons. This is an extremely heavy handed answer to crew AP going through the roof because of imports.

Also shotgun falloff? In the short range fights on station? Really? It doesn't fix shotguns being by far a better melee weapon that almost any melee weapon, and it's incredibly goofy to boot. Nerf damage or firerate don't use a gamey ass mechanic to affect the least problematic part of the weapon.

[Veth-s]

This needs tming first, and if it is too heavy, we will go with #6521

[Loiosh42]

This is really bad. It takes away the clean numbers and simple maths weapons used to have -eswords being able to ignore basic armour with their 35, really good AP being able to ignore specialised armour with 50 and above, and things with only a little AP like sharpened iron rods only doing a bit against sec armour.

In return, it makes lower values do very little against most armour, and also means that when those values are increased to follow high armour stops being an option against those same weapons. This is an extremely heavy handed answer to crew AP going through the roof because of imports.

Also shotgun falloff? In the short range fights on station? Really? It doesn't fix shotguns being by far a better melee weapon that almost any melee weapon, and it's incredibly goofy to boot. Nerf damage or firerate don't use a gamey ass mechanic to affect the least problematic part of the weapon.

And how many people knew how that clean math worked? Many people I have talked with assumed this is how AP worked. If you think melee should have higher levels of subtractive and less AP that can be arranged, I think it makes more sense like this.

Have you LOOKED at what values stuff got changed to? This isn't about imports AP, this is about AP as a whole.

As for shotguns, I have been chatting with another coder about them for a bit. Tis either falloff, high negative AP, or a drop in damage. I think falloff is more interesting.

[Loiosh42]

Overall though, I'm happy to change the numbers on specific items, even return them to primarily armor subtraction.
Which IS an option with how I set up the code.

The one problem I'm aware of is I haven't fixed the combat descriptor text yet to include both values, but I was going to wait till after it gets merged or closed.

[Ice-Type]

This is really bad. It takes away the clean numbers and simple maths weapons used to have -eswords being able to ignore basic armour with their 35, really good AP being able to ignore specialised armour with 50 and above, and things with only a little AP like sharpened iron rods only doing a bit against sec armour.
In return, it makes lower values do very little against most armour, and also means that when those values are increased to follow high armour stops being an option against those same weapons. This is an extremely heavy handed answer to crew AP going through the roof because of imports.
Also shotgun falloff? In the short range fights on station? Really? It doesn't fix shotguns being by far a better melee weapon that almost any melee weapon, and it's incredibly goofy to boot. Nerf damage or firerate don't use a gamey ass mechanic to affect the least problematic part of the weapon.

And how many people knew how that clean math worked? Many people I have talked with assumed this is how AP worked. If you think melee should have higher levels of subtractive and less AP that can be arranged, I think it makes more sense like this.

Have you LOOKED at what values stuff got changed to? This isn't about imports AP, this is about AP as a whole.

As for shotguns, I have been chatting with another coder about them for a bit. Tis either falloff, high negative AP, or a drop in damage. I think falloff is more interesting.

I have looked and it makes low AP do fuck all against light armour, and so to compensate you've made mid AP weapons pretty much ignore armour even if someone's got stacked riot or even better.

Shotgun falloff leaves shotguns as being way better melee weapons than melee weapons which a GUN should not be, and the weakness at range makes it inconsistent and pushes people even more to use them as "power fist with double the attack speed"

[Loiosh42]

This is really bad. It takes away the clean numbers and simple maths weapons used to have -eswords being able to ignore basic armour with their 35, really good AP being able to ignore specialised armour with 50 and above, and things with only a little AP like sharpened iron rods only doing a bit against sec armour.
In return, it makes lower values do very little against most armour, and also means that when those values are increased to follow high armour stops being an option against those same weapons. This is an extremely heavy handed answer to crew AP going through the roof because of imports.
Also shotgun falloff? In the short range fights on station? Really? It doesn't fix shotguns being by far a better melee weapon that almost any melee weapon, and it's incredibly goofy to boot. Nerf damage or firerate don't use a gamey ass mechanic to affect the least problematic part of the weapon.

And how many people knew how that clean math worked? Many people I have talked with assumed this is how AP worked. If you think melee should have higher levels of subtractive and less AP that can be arranged, I think it makes more sense like this.
Have you LOOKED at what values stuff got changed to? This isn't about imports AP, this is about AP as a whole.
As for shotguns, I have been chatting with another coder about them for a bit. Tis either falloff, high negative AP, or a drop in damage. I think falloff is more interesting.

I have looked and it makes low AP do fuck all against light armour, and so to compensate you've made mid AP weapons pretty much ignore armour even if someone's got stacked riot or even better.

Shotgun falloff leaves shotguns as being way better melee weapons than melee weapons which a GUN should not be, and the weakness at range makes it inconsistent and pushes people even more to use them as "power fist with double the attack speed"

I'm afraid I fail to see how this is the case. If there are specific items you believe should be changed, please state them.
35 AP used to 100% ignore most of crew armor, which is why I made weapons which used to be high AP have equivalently high values.

And how exactly does falloff make this any worse than it was before? If this is really an issue I can remove it and let the other nerf be used.

[Ice-Type]

This is really bad. It takes away the clean numbers and simple maths weapons used to have -eswords being able to ignore basic armour with their 35, really good AP being able to ignore specialised armour with 50 and above, and things with only a little AP like sharpened iron rods only doing a bit against sec armour.
In return, it makes lower values do very little against most armour, and also means that when those values are increased to follow high armour stops being an option against those same weapons. This is an extremely heavy handed answer to crew AP going through the roof because of imports.
Also shotgun falloff? In the short range fights on station? Really? It doesn't fix shotguns being by far a better melee weapon that almost any melee weapon, and it's incredibly goofy to boot. Nerf damage or firerate don't use a gamey ass mechanic to affect the least problematic part of the weapon.

And how many people knew how that clean math worked? Many people I have talked with assumed this is how AP worked. If you think melee should have higher levels of subtractive and less AP that can be arranged, I think it makes more sense like this.
Have you LOOKED at what values stuff got changed to? This isn't about imports AP, this is about AP as a whole.
As for shotguns, I have been chatting with another coder about them for a bit. Tis either falloff, high negative AP, or a drop in damage. I think falloff is more interesting.

I have looked and it makes low AP do fuck all against light armour, and so to compensate you've made mid AP weapons pretty much ignore armour even if someone's got stacked riot or even better.
Shotgun falloff leaves shotguns as being way better melee weapons than melee weapons which a GUN should not be, and the weakness at range makes it inconsistent and pushes people even more to use them as "power fist with double the attack speed"

I'm afraid I fail to see how this is the case. If there are specific items you believe should be changed, please state them. 35 AP used to 100% ignore most of crew armor, which is why I made weapons which used to be high AP have equivalently high values.

And how exactly does falloff make this any worse than it was before? If this is really an issue I can remove it and let the other nerf be used.

Because right now shotguns are scary at range, and terrifying in melee due to their wall slam, high damage, and fast firerate. Falloff would keep their better than powerfist melee, and because it weakens ranged fighting even encourages it.

35 AP DOES ignore most crew armour, but riot armour, elite modsuits, smithed gear all have very significant protection still. That goes up in smoke with the fat 75% reduction.

You also forgot the heretic knife, and presumably similar AP weapons that aren't in melee

[Loiosh42]

This is really bad. It takes away the clean numbers and simple maths weapons used to have -eswords being able to ignore basic armour with their 35, really good AP being able to ignore specialised armour with 50 and above, and things with only a little AP like sharpened iron rods only doing a bit against sec armour.
In return, it makes lower values do very little against most armour, and also means that when those values are increased to follow high armour stops being an option against those same weapons. This is an extremely heavy handed answer to crew AP going through the roof because of imports.
Also shotgun falloff? In the short range fights on station? Really? It doesn't fix shotguns being by far a better melee weapon that almost any melee weapon, and it's incredibly goofy to boot. Nerf damage or firerate don't use a gamey ass mechanic to affect the least problematic part of the weapon.

And how many people knew how that clean math worked? Many people I have talked with assumed this is how AP worked. If you think melee should have higher levels of subtractive and less AP that can be arranged, I think it makes more sense like this.
Have you LOOKED at what values stuff got changed to? This isn't about imports AP, this is about AP as a whole.
As for shotguns, I have been chatting with another coder about them for a bit. Tis either falloff, high negative AP, or a drop in damage. I think falloff is more interesting.

I have looked and it makes low AP do fuck all against light armour, and so to compensate you've made mid AP weapons pretty much ignore armour even if someone's got stacked riot or even better.
Shotgun falloff leaves shotguns as being way better melee weapons than melee weapons which a GUN should not be, and the weakness at range makes it inconsistent and pushes people even more to use them as "power fist with double the attack speed"

I'm afraid I fail to see how this is the case. If there are specific items you believe should be changed, please state them. 35 AP used to 100% ignore most of crew armor, which is why I made weapons which used to be high AP have equivalently high values.
And how exactly does falloff make this any worse than it was before? If this is really an issue I can remove it and let the other nerf be used.

Because right now shotguns are scary at range, and terrifying in melee due to their wall slam, high damage, and fast firerate. Falloff would keep their better than powerfist melee, and because it weakens ranged fighting even encourages it.

35 AP DOES ignore most crew armour, but riot armour, elite modsuits, smithed gear all have very significant protection still. That goes up in smoke with the fat 75% reduction.

You also forgot the heretic knife, and presumably similar AP weapons that aren't in melee

Mm. You know what, fair point on the shotguns. I'll leave it to the other coder to do the nerf on them.

So what you are saying is e-swords should have lower AP and higher ignorance values? That can be arranged.
35 old AP used to make 50 armour 15 effective armour, 75 new AP makes 50 armour 12.5 effective armour.

Please go examine the code if you believe I missed any references to armour_penetration. Heretic knives simply don't have any.

[Loiosh42]

Tis true, I didn't up the AP on the cult special swords or chaplain rods, I believe 35 new AP is more reasonable than 35 old AP for them anyway.

[Loiosh42]

This has been testmerged for a while, can it either be merged or closed? I have other things to code which will touch on AP.