Investigate into Linux Orca screen reader #90446
Comments
isidorn
added
accessibility
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Version: 1.43.0-insider Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I couldn't find in the file explorer a simple way to identify the name of the folder being displayed. To identify the name of the displayed folder I use an orca feature called flat review mode. It works, but it is not in my opinion very natural. |
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and there are some slowdowns like when closing editors. but note that both of that could be chromium related and it is even possible they are already fixed. I do not usually experience such things in actual google chrome, but it is version 80 (stable) or 81 (unstable). |
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It would be great if VSCode could adopt version 8 or perhaps version 9
of electron since they use more recent versions of chromium.
…On 2/11/20 10:07 AM, Michał Zegan wrote:
and there are some slowdowns like when closing editors. but note that
both of that could be chromium related and it is even possible they
are already fixed. I do not usually experience such things in actual
google chrome, but it is version 80 (stable) or 81 (unstable).
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I just tried our Orca on Linux with VS Code (with the flag
We always try to update the use the later chromium and electron version. However Electron usually has some issues that are blockers so it takes quite some time before we test, fix and make sure an Electron version is working fine. Thus we do want to use Electron 8 and 9, but that will happen in one of the following milestones. As for the name of the explorer: you can focus on the title area of the explorer via Shift + tab to read that out. Or you could For the slowdownes: if you also see this in previous Chrome versions than that is probbly the same issue and should be fixed once we adopt to later Electron. |
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Hmm if you enable accessibility in editor settings it should work fine provided you are on electron 7. on 6 it has some issues because it didn't read when pressing up/down arrows. |
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I have accessibility enabled via vscode setting, i am on electron 7, and I have passed the |
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Also note that you have to be on Orca master. The version shipped with
your distro packages likely won't work.
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oh sorry, forgot about that detail. :) yes, it needs to be orca master. not necessarily latest commit, but definitely would be the best. |
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Sorry for the reply spam. Probably should have bunched the last two, but
I'm only now drinking my coffee and increasing the number of cylinders
my brain is firing on. :)
The editor area works very well overall for me, with a couple
exceptions. I hesitate to report them primarily because Chromium support
is so new, I know you're stuck on Electron, and my assumption is that
issues will go away as the Electron version bumps. Not sure how to pin
down root causes in that environment, but in any case:
1. I also notice the off-by-1 line reads. This happens primarily in the
SCM commit message editor for me. I also sometimes have the entire
commit message read when arrowing between lines. I think this happens
when I hit the end of the text region, so if I write a commit message
and attempt to read the last line, I'll hear the entire message.
2. I can't use Alt-# to navigate between editors in a group if the
editor widget has focus. Even if I switch to browse mode in Orca, Alt-#
doesn't switch editors unless I move the cursor out of the editor
widget. This is probably the biggest feature I miss, since Ctrl-tab is
slower and requires many more keystrokes.
Thanks.
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first issue confirmed here. |
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Issue with alt+# not working is not confirmed for me, although the change of editor is not announced. |
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You're right. If I alt-tab out and back in, I do discover that I'm in a
new editor by virtue of the window title being read. It is automatically
read if focus is outside the editor window, though.
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note that the bug, even if it is chrome specific, could disappear already. none of us is using chromium 78.x, and that is the one underlying electron 7. |
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@webczat we can easily double check that if you try to open that site https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/textarea with different Chrome versions and check how the |
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With regard to 2: Alt-1, Alt-2, etc. are VSCode keybindings for jumping
to the specific editor at that position. So definitely not an Orca
issue, though maybe there's something about not speaking window title
changes when a textarea has focus. I'd be interested in knowing whether
that works under NVDA.
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@ndarilek it works fine on Windows and NVDA. However I use the shortcut Ctrl-1, Cltr-2 there. Once the Editor gets focus NVDA properly reads out the content. |
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Isn't ctrl-1, ctrl-2, etc. for jumping between editor groups rather than
instances within a group?
Right now I have a project with subsystems in Kotlin and Elixir. I have
Kotlin files in group 1, Elixir files in 2, and .eex files (Embedded
Elixir, HTML templates essentially) in group 3. So if I'm editing the
Kotlin subsystem, I press Ctrl-1, then Alt-1, Alt-2, Ctrl-tab, whatever,
to navigate between Kotlin files. Ctrl-2 brings me to my Elixir source,
and Ctrl-3 to my templates. This is a nice setup, since generally I'm
working on a specific area of the project, so I can pop into an editor
group and have all my files for a given subsystem open. Previously, when
working in Gedit, I just had a giant sprawl of tabs open, with HTML
templates interspersed with several different language files for several
different microservices. Quickly became an unmanageable mess.
It's great that there are multiple workflows. I guess my point is that,
if Alt-1, Alt-2, etc. is a usable command and works under NVDA, it
should also be made to work under Orca. That there are workarounds and
alternatives is a nice thing, but they're there to support multiple
workflows, and I'd very much like to see this way of doing things made
accessible.
Thanks.
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It is not being read out for me, only when I do some editing the edited characters get read out. Do I have to setup Orca specially or what am I missing here?
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Using version 82.0.4055.0 of chromium I have not found any problems on this site.>
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@jvesouza yes I am on Ubunutu 18.04. Ctrl + E shows the whole editor history, not only the open editors. |
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Interestingly enough, if the editors are empty, it seems to speak new
titles just fine.
I sent a message to the Orca mailing list. Hopefully we'll get more help
figuring this out.
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Great thanks. I can also join the Orca mailing list if you think that makes sense. |
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hello @ndarilek. you can use Ctrl with up or down arrow to read lines. |
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also @isidorn. is force-renderer -accessibility is needed in current insiders? i want to ditch my code wrapper. |
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@alex19EP no, it is not needed. Latest insiders is from Monday and I did the change on Friday, so should be good. |
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Updated the docs to mention terminal navigation mode (ctrl+up/down) microsoft/vscode-docs@3c0e8d4 |
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Cool. Another thing, and sorry if this shouldn't be a grab bag of random
accessibility quibbles. :)
I'm working on a fairly complex project with microservices in a few
different languages. Sometimes I make several sets of changes, and want
to split them into logical commits. It can be hard to limit a set of
changes to a single logicl commit because often they need to be tested
together, and one won't make much sense if another is impractical or
unneeded. Right now I:
1. Press Ctrl-Shift-G to jump to the VCS changes view.
2. Tab to my changes.
3. Find a change in the tree.
4. Press the Applications key.
5. Arrow down to Stage Changes.
6. Press Enter.
7. Repeat 4-6 a few times...
Is it possible to stage changes just by pressing Enter on an item? That,
to me, seems most logical, with Discard and other operations remaining
reachable through the context menu. More often than not, I'm in this
view wanting to stage changes.
Yes I can set up Smart Commit to stage everything, but I've already
accidentally committed secrets that way. :) Yes I can group untracked
files and not Smart Commit those, but that took a bit of digging to set
up. I just think that the default in this view will almost always be to
stage the currently-selected change, so Enter should do that, though I
certainly won't bikeshed it if there are good reasons not to do this.
Just felt like I had to dig a git to find this, and VSCode nudged me
toward a behavior that, in its default configuration, probably isn't
wise (at the very least, Smart Commit shouldn't default to also adding
untracked files.)
Thanks.
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Oh, and thanks for the terminal tip, BTW. I'd have never thought to use
Ctrl-up/down arrow. Working very nicely here. :)
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Great tip! thanks.
What if I wanted to read word by word or character by character? Or even
select some text displayed in the terminal?
This is certainly not the appropriate place for this type of question,
but honestly I am in the learning phase of using vscode.
…On 2/18/20 8:07 AM, Alexander Epaneshnikov wrote:
hello @ndarilek <https://github.com/ndarilek>. you can use Ctrl with
up or down arrow to read lines.
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@jvesouza the screen reader's feature to read by word or character should work when using the navigation mode. |
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Regarding the file explorer:
1. If I am in the file explorer and press shift + tab, the focus is
moved to the session explorer and orca announces the name of the folder.
2. When the focus is moved to the file explorer, the name of the file in
focus is not announced. I just hear a message stating that I must use
the navigation keys to navigate.
…On 2/13/20 11:11 AM, Isidor Nikolic wrote:
@ndarilek <https://github.com/ndarilek> I have joined the list. I will
send an email there introducing myself once I am added by the admin.
@jvesouza <https://github.com/jvesouza>
* those are notifications, which are not blocking modal dialogs.
Once you hear them you can focus on them via the command
|notifications.focusToasts|. Please note that this command does
not have a default keybinding, so you will have to assign
something to it via Preferences > Keyboard Shortcuts. In
tomorrow's vscode insiders this "Focus Toasts" command will also
be in the F1 command palette to make it more discoverable. Once
the focus is on the toasts you can navigate up / down and
tab to focus into a toast and go throught the buttons.
* For the explorer: I have changed the aria label of the explorer
from "File Explorer Section" to "File Explorer: NAME_OF_FOLDER",
so now it should be better. Check it out in vscode insiders
tomorrow. And let me know.
Please let me know if there are more issues / blockers.
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@jvesouza 1) sounds expected |
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generally the rule is that what was selected in the tree should be selected/announced when I return to it. othervise I don't know where I am, and have to press down/up arrow for example to reread. and imagine if there is only one item in the whole tree... |
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Well the focus should always be preserved when you return to the file explroer. We only focus the whole tree if nothing was focused before. |
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it may be it is indeed preserved, but that screenreader does not get enough info to know what is the focus in tree. it is quite common bug in my experience :) |
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@alex19EP good catch. I was doing something stupid and was only writting it on setting change. So can you please try it out tomorrow and let me know if it works for you then. Thanks a lot! The experience should be the following: |
yay. now it works like a charm! thanks @isidorn i tested all cases. |
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@alex19EP awesome, thanks a lot for trying it out. Next week we plan to do some testing in our team of Orca screen reader with VS Code. For reference here's the test plan item #91063 Also I tried sending some email to the Orca mailing list, not sure if you recieved them or they are still waiting for administration? |
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@isidorn I did not receive any email from you on the orca list. |
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on the other hand I am surprised that the list requires admin approval... |
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Ok, I will send her an email. Thank you |
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What Linux version are you all using? |
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I am using arch Linux.
Em qua, 26 de fev de 2020 10:12, Isidor Nikolic <[email protected]>
escreveu:
… What Linux version are you all using?
For us all seems to work nicely on Ubuntu 18.04, but on Ubuntu 19.10 does
not seem to work...
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same here. archlinux seems quite popular among us. It definitely has newer packages than even ubuntu 19.10 and things work here. |
Should work nicely with Electron 7, might need
--force-renderer-accessibilityflag passed.Reference: #88893
fyi @jvesouza @webczat @ndarilek
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