Python 3.12 support

[reuvenstr]

I tried to find any information about it, but didn’t succeed. Can you please tell if there will be pypy support, or if there is already answers to it, just send me there 😃

thanks ahead

[mattip]

We are working on support for python 3.11 now. What feature of python 3.12 interests you?

[reuvenstr]

Its less features dependent upgrade that I’m looking for. More EOL upgrade to be always up to date. There are timelines for 3.11? Or do date?

[mattip]

There are no timelines, this is a volunteer run project. Code contributions to close open issues or fiscal contributions are welcome.

[reuvenstr]

So i can just open issues and take something, if i can help?

[mattip]

Sure. Maybe start with the ones marked for the next release milestones or the 3.11 milestones

[gh-andre]

@mattip Thank you for PyPy - it does wonders speeding up @property constructs, etc, that slow down native Python a lot.

We are working on support for python 3.11 now. What feature of python 3.12 interests you?

I had this same question and wanted to mention another reason for having to use Python 3.12, which comes with Ubuntu 24.04. That is, Ubuntu 22.04 has Python 3.10 in their standard package repositories and Ubuntu 24.04 has Python 3.12. This makes deployments quite more straightforward in that one just needs to pull standard packages and then use PyPy only for those virtualenv environments that need extra performance.

For Windows it is less relevant, but standard Python releases no longer even offer prepackaged Windows installers for any version below Python 3.12.

[mattip]

Thanks for the comments. I am not sure installation is a convincing reason to keep tracking CPython releases. The site packages are not shared between CPython and PyPy: each interpreter manages its own set of packages. Ubuntu has pypy3 in its standard package repositories and we also provide portable builds for windows, macOS, linux-x86_64, linux_x86_32, and linux-aarch at https://downloads.python.org/pypy/

[gh-andre]

It's not so much sharing between repositories, as it is the fact that PyPy would be, say, Python 3.11 and the default system apt repository would have Python 3.12. What I did in the past is to install various version benders, like Conda or the one AWS uses for their Docker images (the name escapes me now), and it causes various problems between apps that know to run from 3.11 virtual environments and those that use the default Python 3.12.

I hear you that specific Ubuntu and other environments are not good enough of a reason. I guess what I'm trying to say is that if Python releases a new minor version each year, then it might be worth considering for PyPy releases that upgrade the Python version to skip every other Python version.

[SidPad03]

Just checking in to see if there have been any updates on PyPy’s support for Python 3.12. I understand that the team is currently focused on Python 3.11, but I wanted to express continued interest in 3.12 support. Any information on progress or timelines would be greatly appreciated.

[mattip]

I wanted to express continued interest in 3.12 support.

Why? What interests you in PyPy and/or Python3.12? We get very little feedback from users and what they use PyPy for.
We basically had decided to stop with Python3.10, but then a volunteer contributed 80% of what was needed to make a Python 3.11, so went ahead and did the other 80% needed for a release.
Would you or someone else you know be willing to do the work to get a Python 3.12?

[BarrensZeppelin]

New Python versions bring various QoL improvements. In particular there is new syntax for type annotations in Python 3.12.
I think the bigger issue is that Python 3.11 will eventually reach EoL, at which point libraries will have little reason to stay compatible with that version.

I'm interested in helping out. I can probably fix failing stdlib tests and work on the parser, but I'm not experienced enough in the PyPy code base to kick off the py3.12 branch.

We get very little feedback from users and what they use PyPy for.

Personally, I've used PyPy extensively for competitive programming. At work I use PyPy to speed up static analyses implemented in (and for) Python.

[SidPad03]

I completely agree with your comment, @BarrensZeppelin.

We’re aiming to use PyPy to speed up our application, and since we’ve already built a lot of dependencies around Python 3.12, we were hoping to leverage PyPy rather than rolling back to Python 3.11. That said, I’m still new to the PyPy codebase and just wanted to ask an informative question to better understand the situation.

[Rubyer77]

I use pypy for speed however in 3.11 you have to use f-strings like this:

f"Employee: {employee['name']}"

when in 3.12 you can use only single-quotes like this:

f'Employee: {employee['name']}'

and my codebase is full of the 3.12 version f'Employee: {employee['name']}' so it's annoying to change them all back to the ugly old version f"Employee: {employee['name']}" to use pypy 3.11.

[gh-andre]

@mattip

Why? What interests you in PyPy and/or Python3.12?

Python 3.12 is the default version on Ubuntu v24.04, which means there is no need to install version benders, like Conda, etc., which all are not ideal, to say the least. Using the default version of Python makes it very straightforward to deploy performance-oriented services via PyPy and regular ones using just the base CPython.

As far as Python syntax is concerned, v3.12 introduces type parameter lists, which makes it easier to maintain generics and also aligns Python more with other templated languages, like TypeScript and C++, so it'd nice to start using this syntax, but without PyPy support on Ubuntu 24.04, I cannot even go to Python 3.11 and just keep running PyPy 3.10, which is the default version of CPython on Ubuntu 22.04.